Author Topic: Temp consistency- nixing the steam blip?  (Read 1859 times)

Offline JojoS

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Re: Temp consistency- nixing the steam blip?
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2017, 06:38:29 PM »
I think many of us here will agree that a naked pf will help you a lot in your perceived Voodoo part in making espresso.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 06:39:55 PM by JojoS »

Offline D4F

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Re: Temp consistency- nixing the steam blip?
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2017, 07:32:20 PM »
Now try a bit finer grind yet and decrease the volume in 25 - 35 seconds to about 25 grams.  You may or not like it better, but it gives a bit more range to play with and experiment for taste.

Offline vindibona1

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Re: Temp consistency- nixing the steam blip?
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2017, 10:28:55 AM »
Thanks for all the advice.  I'll try the ristretto when my daughter comes over as she is into that type of brew.

In the meantime, this morning I pulled 3 consistent shots that tasted terrific. These past few days I've see a significant improvement over what was already pretty good.  212F, 3 second blip, 17.5 gms Redbird,  approx 30 seconds for 36ml.

FWIW, I've been using the Saeco PF from my old Sirena. It fits perfectly in the machine but the basket is a trifle deeper so the grinds don't overflow as easily.  The handle is more refined with a rubberized grip. It weighs 511 gms, so approximately the same as the Gaggia PF. From a functional/taste standpoint I think the two PF's work identically. The Saeco just has a bit better feel and makes a bit less mess with the amount of coffee I'm grinding.

Offline SusanJoM

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Re: Temp consistency- nixing the steam blip?
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2017, 11:40:38 AM »
Sidebar:  These dosing funnels from Orphan Espresso are really fine for filling the portafilter from the grinder with less mess.

http://www.orphanespresso.com/OE-Aluminum-Portafilter-Dosing-Funnel_p_2415.html

“Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.”
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Offline vindibona1

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Re: Temp consistency- nixing the steam blip?
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2017, 01:34:19 PM »
Sidebar:  These dosing funnels from Orphan Espresso are really fine for filling the portafilter from the grinder with less mess.

http://www.orphanespresso.com/OE-Aluminum-Portafilter-Dosing-Funnel_p_2415.html

I bought the Ipanema model as I thought it was more robust made from machined aluminum.  I had previously made a funnel out of some conical shaped plastic (can't remember what it came from) which showed me that the funnel was essential.   Since using the funnels I get near zero mess. The Ipanema fits right up against the spout of the Sette.  My only minor complaint about the Ipanema, that would be less so with the less expensive model is that the lip is a bit thick so I have to pay attention in distributing the grinds to fill in the trough that's left behind before creating any kind of compression to keep the tamp as even as possible.




Offline AndyPanda

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Re: Temp consistency- nixing the steam blip?
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2017, 02:38:13 PM »
I'm sure I'm not the first person to ever do the steam blip ... but I think I am the first person to claim I could pull back to back shots with consistent temps using a steam blip technique.  I made a poor quality youtube video ages ago.

I haven't been around the forums much for the past 5 years and now that I'm back, I notice that people are hitting the steam and then waiting 2-3 seconds before they start the shot.  AND THIS IS WRONG, WRONG, WRONG (haha ... I feel strongly about this).  If you have the temp of the boiler at the perfect starting place, you do not want to wait at all - you want to blip the steam and then immediately start the shot so the heat from the blip doesn't get there until you are well into the shot and have already added the cooling water to the boiler.   If you blip and then wait you have raised the starting temp of your shot and you don't want that.

But regardless ... if your shots taste better without the blip, by all means don't blip  ;D     There are many who prefer the shot to cool slightly as the shot progresses.  And the temp doesn't really drop all that much anyway.   

In the video I was using higher temps so I could do back to back shots - but if you have a PID or know you are all stabilized and at the perfect starting temp for pulling one shot, then you would blip steam for 2-3 seconds and start the shot immediately (IMO)

Here's a link to that old video.  :
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 02:43:30 PM by AndyPanda »

Offline vindibona1

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Temp variation with and without steam blip
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2017, 11:26:53 AM »
I must be getting old and my mind is gone... I didn't realize that I started this thread and was going to start the exact same thread again!  And then I saw this. I guess I have to up my daily dose of Gingko Biloba.

Four months have passed and other than the variance in the Redbird beans many things have become consistent.  I've gotten past the point where I have to weigh the beans going into the grinder and can tell how well I've done by the volume of grinds in the PF.

Since the initial post I've gone back to the steam blip and for the most part have kept it down to about 2 seconds. Any more and the shot gets bitter.  When I don't use it I'm not tasting much difference as when I do do the 2 second blip. But the one thing I've noticed is the temperature rise and fall with and without the blip. It seems counter-intuitive.

Starting at 214F, with the steam blip, a 4 second blip takes the temp up to 221F and then with a 25-30 pull will take it down to 209F.   A 2 second blip takes it up to 219F and down to 208-209 during the pull.  HOWEVER NO BLIP starts at 214F and only goes down to 211-212F.   Huh????

Why will temp at the sensor only drop a couple degrees when there is so much more drop when the temp starts out being boosted?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 11:55:29 AM by SusanJoM »

Offline D4F

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Re: Temp consistency- nixing the steam blip?
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2017, 12:05:53 PM »
If you are looking at the PID sensor, boiler area sensor, it is very reactive.  Look at temperature at the top of the boiler, or center front of the boiler away from the heaters.  Or better, from a thermofilter.  Water temperature is not PID sensor temperature as you know.  That said, I can't give a simple explanation for what you observed.

Offline vindibona1

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Re: Temp consistency- nixing the steam blip?
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2017, 07:08:01 PM »
If you are looking at the PID sensor, boiler area sensor, it is very reactive.  Look at temperature at the top of the boiler, or center front of the boiler away from the heaters.  Or better, from a thermofilter.  Water temperature is not PID sensor temperature as you know.  That said, I can't give a simple explanation for what you observed.

I know that the sensor is at the bottom of the boiler and only measures the boiler, not the water. But is it not counter-intuitive that the boiler temp drops lower during the pull after a blip than if there is not blip at all?

Offline JojoS

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Re: Temp consistency- nixing the steam blip?
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2017, 09:17:32 PM »
Normal when the blip causes the temp at the sensor to exceed the SV set on the PID. The power to the boiler is off until the sensor is below the SV.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 09:49:13 PM by JojoS »

 

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